Showing posts with label telemarketer. Show all posts
Showing posts with label telemarketer. Show all posts

Friday, July 1, 2022

EM-21065 -- SSA Does Consider O*NET -- Kind of, Part 3

We pick up from the discussion of DPT and Temperaments and GED and Aptitudes.  EM-21065 says on interesting thing that is kind of helpful and also myopic:

O*NET information. The information in O*NET has been grouped in such a way that it is not readily usable in our adjudication process. The data is not as specific as the DOT and is not associated with individual DOT occupations. However, adjudicators may use O*NET coding to search for similar DOT occupations for a TSA assessment. See DI 25015.017.

The O*NET is not banned from consideration.  Nor can SSA ban reliable published governmental information.  That is the definition of the scope of administrative notice.   It is also axiomatic that "when an agency takes official or administrative notice of facts, a litigant must be given an adequate opportunity to respond."  Heckler v. Campbell.  

So let's test this proposition that the data in the O*NET is not as specific as the DOT and therefore not useful.  First, the DOT is a statement of the typical way in which an occupation is performed within local and employer variances.  DOT Appendix D.  Typical does not mean the majority of jobs.  M-W defines typical as "combining or exhibiting the essential characteristics of a group," "conforming to a type," or "constituting or having the nature of the type."  This would include the majority but also include a plurality or the median of a particular set.  The DOT is, by definition, a statistical fudge.  

So is the O*NET.  For well over 100 SOC-O*NET codes, the data describes a single DOT code.  Take telephone solicitor as an example.  It is the only DOT code in telemarketers.  The O*NET describes telemarketers as semi-skilled to skilled.  But the O*NET Resource Center describes telemarketers as overwhelmingly requiring less than 30 days of on-site training, on-the-job training, and related work experience.  The vast majority of telemarketers do not require more than a high school education.  The data suggests that telemarketers are typically unskilled.  We have heard the mantra, they just read from a script.  The O*NET tells the world that most telemarketers work less than 40 hours per week.  Most telemarketers work in groups or teams and all have more than occasional contact or interactions with others.  The data in the O*NET is more specific.  

Hand packager is another good example.  The DOT never states the amount of sitting or standing/walking required, except for sedentary work is at least 5.7 hours per day.  The O*NET  states that hand packagers never sit in 50% of jobs.  That is important information when a person has a 6.0 hour standing/walking limitation.  There are 59 DOT codes but this is good information about how packers typically work and to explore the vocational witness's understanding of how much standing/ walking packagers actually do and how the VW acquired that information.  

When it comes to the nature and requirements of work, SSA is not the expert agency.  SSA's expertise is the medical evidence and the nature of impairments.  There, the agency gets deference.  In terms of occupational information, SSA must get that information from one or two agencies:  the Department of Labor and the Census Bureau.  What does DOL say about the DOT and the O*NET?  This:

The Dictionary of Occupational Titles (DOT) was created under the sponsorship by the Employment and Training Administration (ETA), and was last updated in 1991. The DOT was replaced by the O*Net, and ETA no longer supports the DOT.
The O*Net is now the primary source of occupational information. It is sponsored by ETA through a grant to the North Carolina Department of Commerce. Thus, if you are looking for current occupational information you should use the O*Net.

The DOT was loaded onto the OALJ website because it was a standard reference in several types of cases adjudicated by the OALJ, especially immigration related matters. Time has passed, DOL’s regulations have changed, and OALJ now rarely adjudicates cases that reference the DOT.

So, why is the DOT still on the Office of Administrative Law Judges (OALJ) website? It is because the DOT is still used in Social Security disability adjudications and the OALJ copy of the DOT is often cited as an authoritative source of the DOT.

The Social Security Administration (SSA) is developing a new Occupational Information System (OIS), which will replace the DOT as the primary source of occupational information for use in the SSA disability adjudication process. SSA intends to have the OIS operational and to make necessary regulatory and policy updates by 2020.

Because the EM comes form the non-expert agency, it fails the basic deference test.  Kisor v. Wilkie.  When we want information about the requirements of work in the national economy, we should always use the most recent DOL published information.  

That takes us to the rub.  The VW has local experience.  The VW projects to the nation what the VW saw one time in a plant or office 20 years ago or assumes that the accommodation that VW worked out with an employer for one person 15 years ago is the norm.  The VW must answer the question and explain how the witness "extrapolat[es] those findings to the national economy by means of a well-accepted methodology."  The VW never has one.  The courts and the agency have swallowed the Kool-Aid that any VW appearing at the hearing is doing anything other than flying by the seat of his/her pants.  Administrative notice is the basic concept of establishing the number of jobs and the requirements of those jobs.  The O*NET serves that purpose.  A VW can help interpret that data, but even that assumes that the VW has statistical training.  They don't.  


_______________________

Suggested Citation:


Lawrence Rohlfing, EM-21065 -- SSA Does Consider O*NET -- Kind of, Part 3, California Social Security Attorney (July 1, 2022) https://californiasocialsecurityattorney.blogspot.com




Thursday, May 31, 2018

Transferable Skills to Telephone Solicitor, Part 1 -- the OOH

Vocational expert assumes the presence of a work history that includes selling cable television service to walk-in customers.

    Contacts homeowners, apartment managers, and other prospects to sell cable television service: Compiles list of prospective customers from lists of homes that do not have cable television and lists of residential addresses with names of owners and occupants. Travels throughout assigned territory to call on prospective customers in their homes to solicit orders. Performs duties as described under SALES REPRESENTATIVE (retail trade; wholesale tr.) Master Title.
GOE: 08.02.06 STRENGTH: L GED: R4 M3 L4 SVP: 3 DLU: 88

The ALJ directs the VE to assume a limitation to sedentary work.  Vocational expert identifies the occupation:

299.357-014 TELEPHONE SOLICITOR (any industry) alternate titles: telemarketer; telephone sales representative
    Solicits orders for merchandise or services over telephone: Calls prospective customers to explain type of service or merchandise offered. Quotes prices and tries to persuade customer to buy, using prepared sales talk. Records names, addresses, purchases, and reactions of prospects solicited. Refers orders to other workers for filling. Keys data from order card into computer, using keyboard. May develop lists of prospects from city and telephone directories. May type report on sales activities. May contact DRIVER, SALES ROUTE (retail trade; wholesale tr.) 292.353-010 to arrange delivery of merchandise.
GOE: 08.02.08 STRENGTH: S GED: R3 M3 L3 SVP: 3 DLU: 88

The regulations describe transferability:
(2) How we determine skills that can be transferred to other jobs. Transferability is most probable and meaningful among jobs in which—
(i) The same or a lesser degree of skill is required;
(ii) The same or similar tools and machines are used; and
(iii) The same or similar raw materials, products, processes, or services are involved.
We assume each of those factors for this discussion.

Focusing in on the object occupation, telephone solicitor, we discover that it belongs to the occupational group of telemarketers, SOC 41-9041.  The O*NET OnLine describes an SVP of 4.0 to < 6.0.  That detail page does not contain a link to the Occupational Outlook Handbook.  That means that the OOH does not contain detailed information about telemarketers.  The occupation is on the long list of occupations not covered in detail.  The OOH describes telemarketers:

Telemarketers
Solicit donations or orders for goods or services over the telephone.
  • 2016 employment: 216,600
  • May 2017 median annual wage: $24,460
  • Projected employment change, 2016–26:
    • Number of new jobs: 0
    • Growth rate: 0 percent (Little or no change)
  • Education and training:
    • Typical entry-level education: No formal educational credential
    • Work experience in a related occupation: None
    • Typical on-the-job training: Short-term on-the-job training
  • O*NET links:

How many DOT codes are inside this group called "telemarketers?"  Just one, telephone solicitor.  

The Commissioner takes administrative notice of the OOH.  Administrative notice proves facts without evidence.  Suggested approaches:
Q:  The occupation of telephone solicitor, how many of those just read a script?
Q:  How many telephone solicitors require a month or less of training?
Q:  If the Department of Labor classified telephone solicitor as unskilled in a different publication, would you defer to that classification?
Q:  How does the OOH classify telemarketers, skilled, semi-skilled, or unskilled?
Q:  If a worker couldn't function without assistance within the first month, would that person get terminated?
Administrative notice of the DOT permits rebuttal.  Due process requires the ability to rebut presumptions made in administrative notice.  Technology has changed since the DLU of 1988 and the OOH captures that shift.  We have heard vocational experts in other cases claim that at least part of the occupational base is unskilled.  Beat that drum in the face of transferable skills testimony -- the occupation is no longer semi-skilled.  

Tuesday, November 7, 2017

Simple Unskilled Work with the Work Function of Persuading

As we persist through the agonal days of the Dictionary of Occupational Titles, time still exists to disassemble vocational expert testimony based on apparent conflict with the DOT.  The typical basis for establishing conflict with the testimony and the DOT focus on the trailer information described in Appendix C.  I have suggested at NOSSCR conferences that we use the Data-People-Things codes found in Appendix B.  This post looks at the 11 unskilled occupations and one semi-skilled occupation occasionally identified as transitioned to unskilled with the fifth digit, of 5. 

The middle three digits "reflect relationships to Data, People, and Things, respectively. These digits express a job's relationship to Data, People, and Things by identifying the highest appropriate function in each listing." The 5th digit of the DOT code reflects the people function. When that 5th digit is a 5, the DOT informs that the occupation requires persuasion.

                               DOT             Name                                                St  SVP   GED
291.457-010
Cigarette Vendor
L
   2   
    222
291.454-010
Lei Seller
L
2
   222
292.457-010
Newspaper Carrier
L
2
   222
295.357-018
Furniture-Rental Consultant
L
2
   322
342.657-010
Barker
L
2
   323
293.357-014
Fund Raiser II
L
2
   323
293.357-018
Goodwill Ambassador
L
2
   323
291.357-010
Sales Representative, Door-to-Door
L
2
   323
342.357-010
Weight Guesser
L
2
   323
291.457-014
Lounge-Car Attendant
M
2
   222
291.457-022
Vendor
M
2
   222
299.357-014
Telephone Solicitor
S
3
   333

Some of the usual suspects are on the list. Furniture-rental consultant, fund raiser II, and telephone solicitor. The two medium occupations have reasoning level 2 as do three of the light occupations. The common factor in these 12 DOT codes is that 5th digit -- a 5. Appendix B defines that worker function as persuading. Appendix B refines that definition:
5 Persuading: Influencing others in favor of a product, service, or point of view.
The Revised Handbook for Analyzing Jobs gives examples of persuading as a worker function.
5 Persuading: Influencing others in favor of a product, service, or point of view.
5: 1 Sells services of industrial psychology firms to management officials.
5:2 Calls on farmers to solicit repair business and to sell new milking equipment. Demonstrates milking machines.
5:3 Offers articles at auction, asking for bids, attempting to stimulate buying desire of bidders and closing sales to highest bidder.
5:4 Sells all types of life insurance by pointing out company programs that meet clients' insurance needs.
5:5 Solicits membership for club or trade association. Visits or contacts prospective members to explain benefits and cost of membership and to describe organization and objective of club or association.
5:6 Contacts individuals and firms by telephone and in person to solicit funds for charitable organization.
5:7 Sells home appliances to customer after pointing out salable features of merchandise.
5:8 Calls on retail outlets to suggest merchandising advantages of company's trading stamp plan.
5:9 Promotes use of and sells ethical drugs and other pharmaceutical products to doctors, dentists, hospitals, and retail and wholesale drug establishments.
5:10 Purchases merchandise or commodities for resale.

Worker functions that require persuading are not simple. They might be a skills that a worker has to learn over time to gain proficiency. It is well beyond the suggestive-sell of a fast food worker, "you want fries with that?"
The ALJ must adduce a reasonable basis for accepting vocational expert testimony that conflicts with the DOT.  Social Security Ruling 00-4p.  Cross-examination becomes key.
"Do you consider the art of persuasion something that workers learn over time?"  
"If reading from a script is all that is necessary for telemarketers, do they need to learn how to read it persuasively?
"Is communicating in a persuasive manner a skill?"
"Is there anything in the medical-vocational profile framed in the ALJ's hypothetical question that suggests to you the ability to perform work functions that require the person to be persuasive?"
Demonstrate fluid application of the DOT in its native format and that might put an end to the VE punking you -- or do for you what it has done for me, provide convincing anecdotal evidence that the VE corps do not put much if any thought into their testimony.

Be aggressive on these "5" jobs, they require persuasion.